68 replies to this topic

[Goodtime]

Booking my first two AFF stages after christmas for the 17th of Jan at Picton! Just curious, for those of you who own your own rig, how long after you completed your AFF did you purchase your own rig, was it new or second hand, how did you obtain it and lastly, how did you find flying on the DZ's student gear??

Thanks..

[Gravity7]

1) Bought it near the end of my freefall training (SL table), had to wait until A licence to use it (this was 1984, not a lot has changed)
2) 2nd hand (3rd hand?) who knows - condition is what counts
3) from my Senior Instructor, $1400 all up, Pigmee2/X228/23'Tricon
4) It's fine, until you get bored with going slowly, and going backwards in any sort of breeze, and they're big and heavy and have lots of straps and you can never get the same one all the time and some of them open really slowly and (pauses for coffee)...

with reference to #3, get your gear advice from everybody, but get anything checked before you buy it (by a person who is NOT the seller), get approval from your CI (so you don't buy the wrong thing).

Peter

[Gemetria]

Booking my first two AFF stages after christmas for the 17th of Jan at Picton!

AWESOME!

Just curious, for those of you who own your own rig, how long after you completed your AFF did you purchase your own rig,

I had 42 jumps but I wish i had got it sooner

was it new or second hand, how did you obtain it and lastly,

Second Hand.  This is the rig that will 'possibly' get a few bumps and scrapes.  Also this is the one that you may very well be on for the shortest time.  People often start on very conservative choices and then looke to get something a little more mid-range for themselves.  Though remember "Slow is Fast" and to not rush to get a small canopy.

how did you find flying on the DZ's student gear??

  well a lot of that will depend on where you are and I have never jumped the student gear at Picton.  I found the gear where I learnt up to the job at the time.

Thanks..

Welcome.... have a on me for making the right choice and booking in

[Luke Oliver]

Booking my first two AFF stages after christmas for the 17th of Jan at Picton! Just curious, for those of you who own your own rig, how long after you completed your AFF did you purchase your own rig, was it new or second hand, how did you obtain it and lastly, how did you find flying on the DZ's student gear??

Thanks..

Awesome. Have a ball, you will.

Purchased first rig at about 80 jumps. I thought I'd stopped crashing by then (hadn't really - a decent ZP canopy at 220 jumps was the big difference). This was widely regarded as being an excessive delay at the time, and looking back it would have been much smarter to buy something black and second hand a lot sooner.

Ordered new from Parachutes Australia, who have provided exceptional service. That particular rig is still in service, GregieM sold it to someone whom I saw in the plane not that long ago :-) I've purchased three more from them since. Hmmm... must be nearly that time again...

DZ Student Gear is great. Until you know the difference. Heavier. Less comfortable. More complicated to pack. Unless you get the same one each time the canopies will be slightly different and so will your landings. And you can't take it home and cuddle it.

[KIA]

Hi G,

Once I knew I was going to stay in the sport (10 odd jumps) I started looking at 2nd hand gear to get a feel for the market.

There wasn't a lot out there the size that was recommended for me (190, 6'3), so I actually slowed my progression until I found a rig, which was 4 - 6 months.

It was about the same time as I got my A licence or just after. It was a bit on the dear side, but saving $50 gear hire every jump soon recouped that.

Most people will recommend 2nd hand for the first rig, as you will want to downsize after a couple of hundred jumps, or new rig with used contents.

I bruised on every jump on student gear 'till I started using fluffy seat belt things.

Cheers

[Goodtime]

I am a bigger bloke, being 195cm and 94kgs.From what I have seen on dropzone.com and other sites, there aren't many containers to suit my build up for sale.Would it be a wise move to invest in a built to measure container off the bat and fit it with used canopy etc??Am I able to do this, or is the container also built around the canopy.I am trying to get as much information as possible, seeing as it is all at my fingertips

[Winston]

I brought my first rig before i started aff. I cant see the sense in waiting until u have 50-60 jumps up. work out 50 jumps at $30 per jump to hire gear. there is $1500 down the toilet. That can just about get u a jumpable first rig off dropzone.com. thats my 2c worth.

[Mistboys]

I would strongly suggest a good secondhand rig to start with, you will fall over & get covered in crap in next 50+ jumps.

And you will start saving $'s (not sure what your DZ charges for rig hire, but am guessing it will be $25/ jump).

And within a year you will probaly look at downsizing (maybe only slightly), so if you buy new now, your rig may not fit newer canopy.

So, go and check dropzone.com and see what is available: but get someone with experience (prefereably one of your instructors) to give you their opinion before commiting to purchasing.

Good luck!

Ralph

[Gemetria]

I am a bigger bloke, being 195cm and 94kgs.From what I have seen on dropzone.com and other sites, there aren't many containers to suit my build up for sale.Would it be a wise move to invest in a built to measure container off the bat and fit it with used canopy etc??Am I able to do this, or is the container also built around the canopy.I am trying to get as much information as possible, seeing as it is all at my fingertips

The extra cost of a new container can indeed be offset by the savings on gear hire while looking for suitable gear in your size and canopy range.  The only problem with looking for second hand gear is it is an unknown quantity as to when it will turn up.  I have seen people keep searching and then decide to buy a new container with second hand components or an all new rig and then a week later a perfect rig turns up for them.  

KIA as he said paid over the odds for his gear but that is also balanced by the fact that there were few sets of gear in his size and canopy range and also he no longer had to pay gear hire.  I think the extra that he paid was a good investment and he made his money back quickly.

I certainly don't encourage people to wait until they have 50-60 jumps and agree with mrbiceps that is a lot of money that could be going towards cheaper jumps if you have the finances to buy gear.  It is also good for people to get their gear early I find as it tends to keep them on that first set of larger gear a little longer.  Those that wait until they have 50 odd jumps seem to get something a little smalle than is good for them often as they are reaching a point where they are nearly ready for it so dont wish to invest in something that they may very well quickly out grow.

So buy a new container if you cant find something suitable and if you are going to do that and have the funds a new reserve and aad could also be good investments but there is nothing wrong with second hand reserves either if they are checked out by our local friendly rigger.  Second hand AAD's tend to be somewhat harder to find so you may find that a new one is the way to go there as well.

I am a dealer for Wings and as a dealer I would still encourage you to find second hand if possible to start with.  Spend the extra money on jumping instead


Keep scouring the For Sale pages and if you have questions about any sets of gear there are lots of people here that are happy to offer some input but remember at the end of the day it is your Cheif Instructor/Dropzone Safety Officer that have to approve what ever gear you are going to be jumping.  Make sure you have covered with them what size canopies etc you should be looking for.

cheers

nb
There are LARGE discounts to be had on the Wings Stock List.  IF you have no luck finding second hand gear and are interested in one of these then feel free to drop me a line and I will answer any questions you have either about the stock rigs or a deal on a new rig.

[Goodtime]

All this info is really helpful, so thanks!Regarding the second hand gear, what would be the oldest DOM most of you guys would be comfy on?I know the DOM doesn't dictate the condition of the gear, but can have quite a bearing on quality.

[Mistboys]

Most stuff from the mid 80's in fine.

Try not to waste time with a canopy made from a fabric called F111, and stick to ZP (Zero Porosity) canopies (they last virtually forever.

Again, when you find something get someone else to look at it (either the ad or gear).

Ralph

[Split]

Bought mine by AFF 7, didnt jump it till jump 32.
2nd hand of Ebay, and another from a deceased estate auction. (both not recomended methods - gto lucky)
DZs(Skydive Express) Student gear was very good with a wide range to cater for all sizes and levels.

sexy Mirage G3, Stilletto 135, PD143R, Cypres - $2750.

Booking my first two AFF stages after christmas for the 17th of Jan at Picton! Just curious, for those of you who own your own rig, how long after you completed your AFF did you purchase your own rig, was it new or second hand, how did you obtain it and lastly, how did you find flying on the DZ's student gear??

Thanks..

[Gemetria]

Bought mine by AFF 7, didnt jump it till jump 32.
2nd hand of Ebay, and another from a deceased estate auction. (both not recomended methods - gto lucky)
DZs(Skydive Express) Student gear was very good with a wide range to cater for all sizes and levels.

sexy Mirage G3, Stilletto 135, PD143R, Cypres - $2750.

at a wild guess I am going to say that you didnt jump the stiletto 135 at 32 jumps

As you said not always the best way to buy but sometimes you just get lucky.  Good onya!


I see a lot of older gear come through the loft and while there is nothing wrong with a lot of the older gear I tend to find that pre mid '90s often needs some work to bring it up to date.  New Velcro, bridle covers, BOC's, Kill line pilot chutes and often just some TLC maintenance.  Often the gear you buy can have this work already done but if the asking price is on the low side from what you have seen there is a good chance that it has not been done and again as Ralph said, get it checked.

[Winston]

I got this off dropzone.com
came with alti, goggles and suit
95 javelin with 18 jumps on it,
215 monarch with 80 jumps
raven reserve
total cost $1400 aud to my door

dam cant put pic in. does anyone know what the problem is with uploading pics lately?

[Split]

Yep cramed a Pilot 150 in there for a couple hundred, made me good at packing, or jaming things into tight spots.
Got very lucky, I troll DZ.com,UKskydiver, SS.com, Ebay, and several rigging shops daily, and is quite hard to find exactly what you want.

Would be a good idea to buy a new container that fits you, and is a squeeze to get your current canopy in, then keep it for the next downsize or 2, which depending on how much you jump, could be several years. (just my thoughts not gospel or APF indosred, maybe similar to others).

Have also been 'unlucky' with the Javelin i bought my girlfriend, which arrived with a cut in the right rear reseve riser, guy in the US denied all knowledge. Luckily the staff at Parachutes Australia replced it in a week for $250, which i think was very well done, & nice workmanship, so wasnt stung too badly.

at a wild guess I am going to say that you didnt jump the stiletto 135 at 32 jumps

As you said not always the best way to buy but sometimes you just get lucky.  Good onya!

[Luke Oliver]

All this info is really helpful, so thanks!Regarding the second hand gear, what would be the oldest DOM most of you guys would be comfy on?I know the DOM doesn't dictate the condition of the gear, but can have quite a bearing on quality.

Most harnesses have a service life imposed by the manufacturer. An example is here:
www.parachutesaustralia.com/s2/SB/PASB9502.pdf (twenty years on most harnesses)
It's the same for Vector/Relative Workshop/United Parachute Technologies I think.

US military is twelve years on anything.

Strong Dual Hawk Tandems have an initial service life of eight years, then must be returned to the factory for recertification which grants them another five years. No obligation to observe that one in Australia though.

RAC203-B says that if the date of manufacture isn't legible and the item has a service life, it must be removed from service: but that RAC is advisory, so it can be ignored. There's a newer service bulletin SB081014 which expressly removes that loophole for emergency parachutes for pilots.

Note that most parachute canopies can have their service life extended by the person who packs your reserve (a Rigger or Packer A).

So, nuts and bolts:

- If the harness is twenty years old or older (pre 1989) do your research before purchase.
- If the parachute itself is twenty years or older, talk to Gravity7. Not many people other than him are likely to jump it :-)

Edited by Luke Oliver, 13 November 2008 - 12:07 PM.
strikethrough the wrong bit about Vector sports rigs

[Gravity7]

- If the parachute itself is twenty years or older, talk to Gravity7. Not many people other than him are likely to jump it :-)

Hey!

I don't jump OLD gear. I jump CLASSIC gear.

And if it's only 20 years old, I'm not interested. 30 at least. (this rule applies to parachutes only )

P.

[Luke Oliver]

It's the same for Vector/Relative Workshop/United Parachute Technologies I think.

Incorrect, apparently - UPT harnesses can be kept in service indefinitely depending on their "condition". Nice.

[Sky Monkey]

UPT?  Whats that?  Thanks luke,

Fly Safe
Fingers

[Gemetria]

UPT?  Whats that?  Thanks luke,

Fly Safe
Fingers

The Uninsured Relative Workshop became United Parachute Technology

In the same way the Wonderhog became a Vector.



What's in a name...?